Coyote pressure...

[jaspr1]

Hey Hern...as UB would say...YANK THEIR CHAIN....lol....I like reading these play by plays...and they are all interesting points of veiw, whether anyone uses the info  or not... I'm to old to get bent I'm stiff but there is always a complaint that there isn't enough participation and this is a good subject....and I knew Goose was Lurking ...............

[Leglifter]

Id like to hear some more story scenarios and experiences from the hunters that made the impression, or confirmed a behavioral theory as to pressured coyotes, to them.

Also Hern,
Are you aware of Heisenberg's uncertainty principle?

[zekedogg]

Hern I think the studies you've done are outstanding. That is truly the best way to learn all about your prey. I only wish I had the time to do that, one of these days I will. I do know that I'm reading and absorbing all this info and plan to take it to the field with me and continue to learn from posts like this until the time I can do my own studies.

[Misterjake23]

Hern,     This single post you made was worth my $25 annual membership fee.  Please continue.

[Lookn4Fur]

I was turkey hunting one day and as my luck would have it there were no turkeys!    I got bored and broke out the predator calls.  Not really predator hunting but just goofing around.  After a couple minutes of calling, I put the calls away and fell asleep under a big pine.  The cat nap lasted about 10-15 minutes.  When I woke up I started calling again.  I didn't even get more than two or three notes out and noticed something working about 80 yards below me to my left.  Dang if it wasn't a coyote and there I was with a shotgun.  Well about that time the coyote winded me and was gone before I could even lip squeak.  I learned more from that coyote than any other animal in my hunting career.

Up to that point I was hunting coyote like I hunt fox.  What a mistake!  Here are some of the differences I have noticed between fox and coyote in my area and how I hunt them.  Keep in mind although growing, I don't have a lot of coyote in my area.  I also have a ton of hunting and trapping pressure around me.  I can tell when I hunt property that nobody else hunts.  I am 90 percent more successful.

My style of hunting for Fox
I prefer to stand up and use the Tri-X stand
I hunt at night
Rifle of choice - 22 hornet
Camo not needed but prefer Mossy Oak Brush
Will hunt any moon phase and any weather except pouring rain
Stands average 15 minutes
Will try to hide with a back ground but have been known to stand in an open field or logging road.
Prefer to hunt reds in open fields and field edges.
Hand and electronic calls almost constantly and mix up sounds

My style of hunting Coyote.
I prefer to sit or kneel using Stoney Point Rapid Pivot Bi-Pod
Hunt after the moon drops into the AM
Rifle of choice - 204 and up
I watch for Barometer and wind and hunt half moon or less - unless I just want to get out.
Stands average 45 minutes - don't know why because if they are there, they respond quick.
Full Mossy Oak Brush Camo and always stay in or in front of cover.
If sunny I try to keep that at my back when wind is favorable.
Prefer to hunt woods and logging roads
Diaphragm and electronics sparingly.

If you compare the two styles, the obvious will stand out.  The one thing I wish I had more time to do and will make any hunter more successful is scouting.  Maybe someday my schedule will allow it. 

[Hern]

 LL asks...
Hern, Are you aware of Heisenberg's uncertainty principle?
No. But am willing to learn.
LL, My studies have been selfish: To figure out how to put more fur in the shed. I was picking a Coyote turd from my jacket pocket, my wife said, 'You think weird.'

'23, LL, zezk, thanks for the kind words.

Scott, between you and me, If you and partner(s) can't get Coyotes in next time or don't see a hide nor hair try this after you think the gig is up...
Start barking and yipping at one another. By that, the gig is up, but I still try to create a couple of intruding Coyotes. I explain to my partner before setup, because he may be out-of-sight, I'll call and stay for x amount of time, after that, I give 3 quick barks. That signals my partner to yip and bark back at me. We heat it up and slow it down for 10-15 minutes. Been doing this 20+ seasons with success and times where we just start off yipping and barking at one another depending on the situation. 

[Hern]

L4F says-
Style for hunting Fox...Will hunt any moon phase and any weather except pouring rainMy style of hunting Coyote...I watch for Barometer and wind and hunt half moon or less - unless I just want to get out.

That's quite dramatic. Want to know why conditions differ to call Fox or Coyote? What's your experiences or theories why weather conditions dictate which Canine to call today.

I know folks worry about moon phase when calling. I trap each season. And some of my largest, single day catch is during Full Moon.

[Lookn4Fur]

I don't think moon phase has anything to do with success as far as predators goes but I prefer to hunt the darker phases because it is easier (in my mind) to walk and hide without detection.  My lights beam is more distinct also.  My experience has also been that I see more critters after the moon goes down and before the sun comes up.  Coincidence?  Could be.

I don't like hunting in the rain.  I am getting to old for that and it messes with my equipment.  It is also tough to see thru the scope at night when my light is reflecting off rain or heavy snow.  It is hard enough to get a good clean kill shot let alone fight the weather.

Medium to high winds can be tough on a mouth and hand caller (volume & distance), which I am about 90% of the time.  I do prefer none to light winds.  Of course scent is more difficult to control with stronger and swirling winds.  A dropping barometer with high winds means a stronger storm is on it's way.

I became aware of the barometer one day when I was doing some research for deer hunting after I overheard several people discussing it.  I thought to my self, "If it's important to deer and deer movement why not other animals?"

I do know that barometric pressure drops before a storm.  I feel animals can sense this and at some point stop hunting and hunker down to weather out the storm. (good because I don't like to hunt in a storm either)  When the barometric pressure rises the storm is weakening and coming to a stop.  The animals will start moving again and are a little more hungry.  Making a tough job just a little easier.  A pressure of 30.0 and up a few points seems to bee the best for movement in my opinion.  The scenario's I mention would be the perfect world and I sometimes think we hunters over think and analyze way too much but I also think that's why we are the top predator on earth, we have that ability.

As far as which predator to hunt in which conditions?  Well it's mostly just personal preference but I do feel that the fox being smaller and thin skinned must eat more frequently to sustain life therefore I will hunt them in more unfavorable conditions than I would the coyote.  I also have a better fox population where I live which allows me more hunting opportunity's.

[scott]

Hern, 

We use the same trick with two people.  I have also seen UB and his brother do the same.  Another thing that has worked for me in the past is to pick up the electronic caller and wave it around creating a more realistic distress sound, at times i will hold it against my leg to muffle it and then take it off. 

Tim, 

Grey Fox will hole up in cold cold weather for days, their metabilsm is different than a coyote, he has to eat every day.  2 to 3 sub 0 temps will have coyotes on the move.. 

[uncle buck]

I just read an outstanding deer hunting book!  I read it not for deer hunting but for coyote hunting. If the weather is warm wild mammals can smell better than when it's cold! So you not only have to understand barometric pressure but Dew Point too!  In warm weather coyotes will smell you easier then on cold days! I know in Jan and Feb that's usually where the coyotes come up to me for petting. Warm months use that misting to confuse rather than in cold months! Another example is Large bucks get large because they are extremely paranoid!  So your large coyotes since they are mammals to get big because they are extremely paranoid! I remember when I called in the 50 pounder for my brother! Tom shot him with # 4 buckshot from a tree stand! I don't like climbing tree stands but for smart old coyotes you might have to do that!
Look at  the mammal the man! What yanks the mammal the man will yank the mammal the coyote. I know some men if they were coyotes they wouldn't last 2 min to a coyote set up. Now a smart mammal that is paranoid be it a old coyote, 17 pound red fox, 13 pound gray fox, or a smart paranoid criminal man are hard to outsmart! Hence why when I call " I Yank Chain!"

[scott]

'A feather fell from the sky. The hawk saw it, the deer heard it, and the bear smelled it, but only the coyote did all three'.

[Hern]

UB states-
If the weather is warm wild mammals can smell better than when it's cold!
UB, I grew up training and running Beagles with my father. He was a true Rabbit man and went to field trials every weekend. My teen years I also spent time behind Fox hounds.
I have seen hounds trail under all conditions, early morning dew, rain, snow, ice, dusty roads, forest floor leaves and such. You are right on about mammals smelling better under certain conditions.

UB goes on-
Now a smart mammal that is paranoid be it a old coyote, 17 pound red fox, 13 pound gray fox...are hard to outsmart!
From my experiences, most of the overweight critters taken are from new territory or places that haven't been hunted or trapped for several seasons. If someone is constantly taking overweight critters I would like to sit by the campfire and chat with 'em. 
On a personal note,  overweight critters come from less pressured properties. And they do show up in my shed from time to time. Sorta like the 60 lb.+ Beaver...so what's the average weight of the rest of your Beaver?
Over weight critters usually come to call or trap the first setup. They don't seem smarter, they seem less pressured.

Human nature lends use to believe the bigger the critter, the smarter it is.
Over weight and Adult critters are two different subjects.
I take a lot of Adult critters during fur season. Heavier, but average weight for Adults.
Over weight leads me to believe the critter had less pressure.
Your thoughts??

[uncle buck]

The 17 pound red fox I got was using the Jack Rabbit distress! Seemed like he wanted bigger game. 13 pound gray didn't come into the GFP but all multiple sounds including the GFP!
Beaver I wouldn't know about Beaver! I don't trap beaver!
Now remember this post is about calling not trapping. When I trap I catch everything. Big, small, sick, stinky. Mange,  etc. calling you just can't compare your harvest to trapping. We are not talking apples and apples or oranges and oranges.
Coyotes! Now the bigger coyotes they got that way from being smart! Years in the wild! They move around so they don't always live on the same acres!
As far as scent distribution goes! I think what the author was stressing was in heat scent carries in atmosphere more readily! How heat affects the scent flow from point A to point B. again we are not talking the same type of scent flow. I know for a fact that wet fields the animal scent really shows up hunting dogs. Now if we walked down through a field a coyote would get better scent of you too if it was wet. That's why I  wear rubber boots and don't walk through the calling area! Again we have to talk apples and apples or oranges and oranges not apple and oranges. You can't truly compare coyote calling to coyote trapping.
Scott's quote kind of spells it out when it comes to coyotes!

[zekedogg]

Boy there's a lot to be learned in this post

[Hern]

UB warns-
Now remember this post is about calling not trapping
I fully know that. Now remember, UB, I started this post.
I used a 60 lb.+ Beaver as an example because it's our state's heaviest furbearer and I feel furbearers get over weight because of less/no pressure. I feel most readers can finger that out.

UB, but you have replied to this post and mentioned: "smart paranoid criminal man", "...is Large bucks get large because they are extremely paranoid!", " standing there like a corral horse", "...just read an outstanding deer hunting book"" as examples.
Does this mean UB is a Deer hunt'n crime fighter that rides a horse? Naw, I don't thinks so.
That's ok, Jim. Let's talk apples to apples. Let's not get into a pee'n match. OK? 

Am sure other readers & lurkers of this post can remember killing over weight critters too.