Coyote pressure...

[Hern]

I would like to start a discussion on a Coyote's reaction to our best calling spots.
I've read on thesehere message board that Pa. Coyotes are hard to call in and we should wait a certain time and all the other basic plans.
One thing overlooked is how the Coyote will approach. Yes, I read where some folks say to use the terrain, but I still think these folks don't practice what the preach or are just computer callers or repeat what they read without trying in the field.

From my experience and study from several Coyote research programs, and talking with Coyotemen, I feel Coyote are easily called and many Pa. Predator callers bring in Coyote without even knowing Coyote are present.
Yes, I will say, most of you readers called in Coyote and never knew it. Me included.
How our Coyote responds and approaches is because of much human pressure. So Coyote uses swales, dips, ditches, fencerows, benches, bushes, brush, stone fences, you name it to come in, downwind, undetected.

....just wanted to get the Fox calling mentality out of serious Coyote calling....it's a different ball game

I would like to hear your thoughts and experiences on Coyote reaction, response & approach.....

[Misterjake23]

Hern,

     I couldn't agree with you more about calling coyotes being so much more diffrent than fox.  When I call fox, I usually only set a max of 10-15 minutes before I move on to the next set.  With Coyotes, I sit for at lease 45 min to an hour.

     I have also experienced the situation where I didn't think I called anything in , but when I leave my set, I come across the tracks in the snow where the Coyote's circled me and I never saw them.

     With hunting fox, I like to hunt with a man working the call and scan light, and a second as the shooter.  With Coyotes, (and some will disagree with me)  I like using 3 guys:  One to run the call, and I like putting a shooter out about 100 yards on each side of the call.  That way when the Coyotes are making a big circle, the shooters stand a better chance of getting a shot off at one.  I understand where some people feel that less is better due to scenting up the area.  Everything has a trade off.....

     I am by far an expert on the subject, but these are simply things that seem to work for me.

[Leglifter]

     I am by far an expert on the subject, but these are simply things that seem to work for me.

Whoa is this a type o?

[Misterjake23]

Bob,  If people think you're an expert...they expect to much!!   LOL     I do a lot of reading on the subject !

[TFC2223]

When I call for any predator terrain rules the stand in conjunction with a multitude of additional factors.  Since I hunt solo most of the time this is of even more importance since the "downwind guy" isn't going to bail me out.  I know most say that coyotes go downwind and alot of mine do but, I also have taken hard chargers on my 12 oclock as well as those who go upwind. 

Pressure, acceptable intrusion/nonacceptable intrusion etc. does definitely come into play on our calling stands and wise choices have to be made to increase ones odds.  I think eventually just about everyone will call one in by pushing the button and getting lucky but, to those who disect this alittle more and abandon the one dimensional mind set, success will occur on a more frequent basis.  (i.e calling only into the wind and so on.  The best wind regardless of direction is the one that works for that stand with the existing conditions).

The above coyote is from a recent Pennsylvania daylight hunt that I was on where terrain along with many not one factor was considered before ever commencing to call.  This one went downwind like so many wil do.  Sorry for the bad cellular picture but, it was all I had on me at the time.

Nice post Hern.  Good luck to you this season sir.

[Hern]

'23, why do you stay longer for Coyote then Fox? Are they slow approaching? Do they travel further?

;23 says-
I have also experienced the situation where I didn't think I called anything in , but when I leave my set, I come across the tracks in the snow where the Coyote's circled me and I never saw them.
Back in the very late '80's to early '90's I did a 5 season, self-study on 'after calling', I took a looksee. By that, with snow on the ground, after I called (kill, miss, no shows) I would check out my calling area to see what was happening. I did this for my own knowledge. I even continued after the season, without gun in hand. It took time and reduced the fur check.
I felt this was time well spent to get a feel on what was happening. At this time, I noticed I didn't see all the Fox and I certainly didn't see all the Coyote, if fact I didn't see most of the Coyote because they swung downwind and used dips, ditches, brush and anything to keep something between us so they could get a nose full before committing. I saw, first hand, where Coyote could snake thru a thicket without knocking snow of branches. How did they do that? Sneaky Buggers. Dang.
At this time, I realized a Coyote wasn't a Fox.
I started hunting with a partner, any family member or one trusted friend. I posted this friend or nephew downwind and from my experience, I posted him at the right terrain, right spot.
Bingo.
One detail took me years to learn.
My success rate sored when I worked with a partner in the right spot.

So how does all this crap and info fit in with pressured Coyote?
Our Eastern Coyote feels pressure almost every week. Farming, Hunting, Logging, ATV's, Hunting, Snowmobiles, Hunting, Trapping, Hikers, Joggers and other outdoor activities.
Feeling pressure, our Coyote responds with caution until he gets a nose full. Coyote do trust their nose. And that's sorta what I came up while looking at tracks and no fur. Coyotes want to keep their hide by using their nose.

'2223,
I do get frontal approaches during this time of year from adult Coyote, but rarely during fur season.  Territory is much small now and I usually am using Coyote sounds near den sites.
Also, frontal approaches from pups during this time of year until December or until they learn how to survive.

[uncle buck]

The Eastern Coyote! Wow what a critter!  They are mammals just like humans! Some humans are book smart and some are life smart. Let say the Pa coyote is just plain smart. God has given him the gifts! He is what we call street smart. If they are there they will come to the call. However they don't come in fast sometimes because they have the gift of paranoia. You have to break down their physic. Yank their chain! That's why you sometimes don't have them show up for 45 min. I have called in coyotes in 20 seconds out to near 45 min. Many coyotes don't approach you into the wind! They like to flank you from the sides. I do think they know something is quite not right where the red light is on and they come in for a look see from your side. You have to keep an eye out for the end of the tree lines. They show up here and will stare at you from your side but only stay for 30 seconds. They will come down the paths of least resistance.  Along the farmers porch, approach through  corral with other live stock,  down the county roads and come in behind your position. So far I have called in 105 pa coyotes in many of the 67 counties of Pa. No I didn't kill 105 coyotes. Many I didn't shoot because of their approach. Thank God that I have called in many coyotes for other hunters. They can at least vouch of me. Ok why haven't I bagged more of the 105 coyotes? Sadly many of those people just miss them. Some don't listen to me and move. Oh many coyotes end up in unsafe shooting spots. I remember during mosquito creek I called this coyote in Perry county. I have a shotgun with Deadcoyote in it. There the coyote stands right with the horse in the corral! Of course I didn't shoot it! I don't worry about the down wind side. Like many said they, Pa coyotes use the least resistance for their approach. They know to use the safety of farm structures in Pa populated counties! Your also going to fail if you select the wrong partners to hunt with too. Everyone got to think like the target animal your hunting. You hunt with partners who do what they want to do you already failed. I too like to hunt coyotes myself. 

[Misterjake23]

Unckle Buck....Thats some pretty tough advice to top!  Many thanks for that contribution to the forum!!!

[jaspr1]

This is reply #8...Hern, I think you have an answer here. Earlier you posted somewhere that you had some sage advice that said something to the effect of "see what the animals are telling you". Funny how you turned on caller with your post, had 82 views so far and only 8 takers.. ..sort of like coyotes, don't you think? There are a bunch sneaking around in the brush but only a few will commit....come on people nobody is dumb luckier than me...step on the pan!! make a comment...GOOSE, BEN, where are ya??? I concur with what has been said so far,especially Kirks view that flip on switch and odds will make it happen, having had some similar circumstances. I would only add that age of the coyote and it's life experiences might also come into play with how they come in..one that has no bad human activity or is young might just blast in or hang around..1st one I got, I missed 1st shot...I hung around he hung around ...big mistake on his part. Once sitting on a hillside at least 600yds from my brother..he howls,makes me jump.. then he starts this growling thing he does...coyote comes racing down hill past me, I have a rifle..no shot..and disappears..later when we hook up I say thought you were going to shoot one there...he has no clue, didn't see a thing...Moonlit night coyote used fence rows and shadows and went undetected....and finally there's the one who sat and watched my friend stack winter fire wood.."sat there like a german shepard and watched me"...friend(?) laughs at me when I show up with rifle and call.."go wash my dishes and watch out window I see more coyotes than you..lol"...DAMN!!

[Hern]

jaspr1, just wanted to share what I observed about Coyote reaction/approach details due to pressure.  .
Heck, for a several years, I brought home Fox, Coyote and Coon droppings. This was also a self-study how I could better age droppings, hence; watching them age & break down during certain weather conditions and time of year.
Another ongoing self-study is tracks and tracking, and enjoy finding furbearer travel ways and crossings.
Also, years ago, the use of trail cams to test furbearer reaction to trapping lures and find hot crossings.
I still use trail cams today, 101 uses.
Plus a self-study in cover scent for 13 years. They call it misting nowadays.
But these are other topics to discuss...let talk pressured Coyote and how they come to your setups...
...I never own a remote control caller. But placing speaker up wind and hunter setting up down wind, in the right location should work if speaker is within range of remote. I sometimes place shooter 50-75-100 yards from my calling location. Do remote callers work within that distance?

jaspr1, there's no need to call people out to reply on a subject. I rarely start a post or topic, but do reply to other posts.  I don't keep score who replies or views. For the most part on message boards, there are way more views than replies. So relax and don't worry about things you have no control of...get another cup of coffee . Now I gotta go check Groundhog and Skunk traps and a few trail cams....

[Leglifter]

I really admire the fact that you do all these "self studies"
Very impressive as usual

[scott]

coyotes have different personalities and smarts.  i am going tonight to a spot where the coyotes are very territorial,  we called for them last Friday night and had them challenging us until a quad drove behind me and spooked them.  we will set up the same way tonight and we will get a shot at them if nobody is around.  Territorial coyotes are the easiest to call in my opinion, they are the ones that will through caution to the wind if and when you upset them enough.  This coyote and the way we call is usually seen around the 18 to 20 minute mark.  These coyotes see a lot of traffic, from 4x4s, parties, and me rabbit hunting with my beagle.  they are very vocal toward my beagle but have left her alone so far.   

[scott]

another spot we are going tonight, we called last Friday and had them respond to us, not sure what they were saying because i have never heard that particular call or response before.  almost like they were just excited and fired up.  this group is chasing fawns around a big farm area and the property owner wants them gone.  had them light up during my first series of calls last time and they got real close to the shooter but he thinks when they got close he lit himself up by shining his light on a big oak he was standing besides.  this group was coming in on the upside but seemed like they were going to flank the caller by 60 or 70 yards and get around to the downwind side.  if we have the correct wind tonight the shooter downwind of the call should get a shot. 

[uncle buck]

These are the kind of post that end up on Predator Extreme magazine published by some free lance predator calling author with a fictitious name. Such was the case when a slip of tongue at predator calling seminars and on here about using  illuminated light sticks for a front shotgun sight. However think of the things that you have in your brain that your going to take to the grave? However if your one of those that think like that there are probably no predators where it gets real hot!
My experience is you could tell other hunters all about this but they truly won't use the data until coyotes have outsmarted them so many times. Then they remember things in post and try it and see that they work.
The real secret is like in who wins football game! The team that plays the most perfect game. See we can tell you how coyotes act but if your gun not sighted in right, you use the wrong gun, take the wrong people, set your head light or scanning light with the wrong type of beam. Any of this wrong and it's simple you failed. IMO when hunting Pa  coyotes least is better than more.

[Pa Goosehntr]

Jaspr1...I be lurking and learning  Yes you can teach an old dog new tricks....but the best knowledge is experience "boots on the ground"....we are all different with the way we each approach the situation  nut the experience we gain with each outing will stay in our minds...similar to that missed coyote or the one you pinched a toe in a trap...."EXPERIENCE" is the best teacher  But I do enjoy reading about others experiences that I try to remember....It's all good!!