The 17's that will put fur down

[uncle buck]

Looking at the picture from left to Right:
The 17 Remington,  The 17 Fireball, The 17 Hornet, and the new 17 Winchester Super magnum Rim Fire!

[uncle buck]

Articles on the new gun revealed that the 17 WSM 25 grain Polymer tip will anchor coyotes out to 125 yards...
what I liked about this new rim fire is that a 20 grain HP and or  20 VMAX zero'd at 100 yards will hit -5.4 inches below the point of impact at  200 yards... Author claims that cross hairs held on a prarie dog  of chucks head it will enter the chest at the  200 yard mark..
As you know at night IMO I start to shoot when the predator is at  100 yards...This  17 WSM can turn out to be an outstanding gun for head shots at that distance..Looking forward to give the  17 Hornet and the new 17 WSM rim fire a good test come this fall..
 

[uncle buck]

What is unique about the 17 WSM rim fire is.... Win took the case from the nail guns used by builders.  They used that to make the  17 WSM rim fire.. See this allow for more pressure.. You can't truly take a 17 HMR rifle barrel and make it into a 17 WSM RF.  The bolt is all different inside the rifle to take the pressure..
if you look at the picture the 17 Hornet is near the same size as  a 17 WSM...velocity  difference is:  17 Hornet 25 grain VMAX 3600 FPS.  17 WSM RF 20 grain VMAX and or 20 Win Super X HP 3000 FPS!

[uncle buck]

I never owned a 17 HMR...I remember once on Hunting Pa that I made comment that it was not a good fox gun because it didn't anchor fox.  They had death runs and at night you could end up not finding them... I stressed this and one of the moderators over there for hunting.. Almost wanted to meet me in a parking lot and fight me because I made that statement.. I actually stopped posting over there about predator hunting because of that. By the way about a month later that person that said that over there was selling his 17 HMR because he determind that it was not a good fox gun..  Recently I read an article about the difference of the 17 HMR and the  17 WSM RF lethal range... The author opinion was this: What the 17 HMR does at 50 yards the  17 WSM will do at 150 yards.. You can see why I'm now excited about this new 17 WSM RF. What was happening is people were taking shots with the 17 HMR well beyond the killing range to anchor bigger animals... I had friends tell me they shot wood chucks with the  17 HMR and they ran away on them. As far as people wanting to meet me in parking lots! You know you can yank chain if someone wants to meet you in a parking lot just because you give an opinion on the killing potential of a firearm. Why if  it's someone like that or a tree hugger writing an article about me in the local paper because they say i'm the predator not the coyotes... I did well... Remember " Not All Men Are Created Equal!"

[xusnordy45]

Regarding your info on the 17 Hornet are you speaking of factory or reloads? I'm guessing reload since you refer to 25gr Vmax? I'm really looking forward to honest feedback on the Hornets effectiveness on yotes within realistic distances. For me that's under 100, even with the claims out there that the Hornet will drop them at 200 plus.

...and I'm with you on the 17HMR thing....people expected way too much of it and pushed it far beyond the limits. Probably believing all the exaggeration from internet snipers and 17HMR eyeball shots on elk at 200yds...lol

[scott]

I was a big fan of the 17s, from HMR to the Fireball.  We have had 3 CF 17s that have lost accuracy very quick.   We do not do a lot of bench shooting so I doubt we wore out the barrels on chucks and fox.  When a gun doesn't group within a quarter at 100 yards it goes.  I got rid of of all the CFs in 17s and have been using the .22 hornet and .222.  I had a conversation the other day with a bullet manufacurer and he told me the groves on the 17s are shallow and they loose accuracy quick.  that is exactly what happend to our CF 17s.  I have not seen a drop in accuracy from the HMRs but they are not getting near the speed of the Fireball. 

Right now I am testing a 42gr double hollow point, running about 3050 ftps out of the CZ .222. 

[uncle buck]

When I got my 17 Rem in the  700 BDL the Remington factory ammo shot so good I didn't reload for years.
I then ordered a Encore  barrel in the  17 Rem (Fox Ridge)  and again the factory ammo also shot so well that I didn't reload. I ordered an Encore 17 Fireball barrel... The Remington ammo shot all over the target.. I thought I had a lemon... I started to reload both the Hornady   20 grain VMAX and the 25 Grain HP. That's what it took.. Reloads grouped all of the 17 Fireball loads below the 1 inch mark... 17.1 grains IMR 8208 XBR made the Hornady  25 grain HP shoot below .25 groups.  While the IMR 8208 XBR wasn't the best powder for the the Hornady 20 grain VMAX.  18.5 of H335 made the  20 grain VMAX shoot .25 groups. I now also have the Hornady seating case for both the  17 Fireball and the 17 Rem. I do use Ernie Wilson shooting rest when I test my reloads.. that probably why I get 1/4 inch groups at 100 yards...I have since that time shot reloads in the  17 Rem rifles and all the recommend powder shot well...Same with the Fireball.. All the recommended powders all grouped.  Unlike the Remington Factory ammo in the  E A Brown 17 Fireball barrel that shot  the factory ammo all over the paper.. The 17 Remington and the  17 Fireball you better hit the fox square in the middle of the chest or it's going to rip it.  Right or left of the center of a fox chest and there is blow up...  Hit a fox in the spine and your going to rip the entire top of the back off. i'm talking 17 Rem and  17 Fireball.. 

[Papa1]

Scott,  I  hope that you will tell all of us who the bullet manufacturer is that told you that.  It is a new slant on .17 problems and one that I have never read about.  Thanks, Dick

[bigben]

How often did you clean your guns with a good copper cleaner scott?

[scott]

Ben,

That could be one of my problems,  I clean them when i think they are dirty only, because i do not like to shoot a clean rifle.  i do use a good copper sol but i have gone from out of the box dime sized groups to quarter sized groups with a flyer here and there with a clean and dirty gun. 

[scott]

Papa 1, 

I wont give the name of the person I spoke with because I do not have his permission to do so, but if you would like to do some interesting reading check out the .19 Badger.   

[bigben]

Ok i wasnt sure if you were only getting the carbon out or actually cleaning with a copper cleaner as well. I have taken 2" guns to .5" guns just by cleaning.

[scott]

I know Ernie uses the 17 CF a lot, hopefully he will chime in.

[uncle buck]

Unless Ernie got a new  17 he was using a  17rem in the CZ configuration...
I have a fox hunting from from the UK..  He told me the same thing about his  22250.  All of a sudden it starts shooting all over the paper  and that's when a simple cleaning brings it back to zero..
I also just read recently in Hornady annual reloading magazine about the CFE powder..Copper Fouling Eliminator. That is actually a clean burning powder... They have reloading info in the magazine for  the  `17 Rem but not yet for the 17 Fireball using the CFE powder... The CFE powder can be used from 17 Rem up through  .375 H & H calibers... However it didn't show any for the 22 Hornet... it did show a reload for 204,   222,  however  and  22250 etc..
This Hornady magazine comes out every Jan and is filled with all kind of good articles and new reloading data on all the new calibers. However it does tell the store to remove it from the racks on 18 March. I get mine in the Barnes and Noble book store.  For example it list the following powders all ready for the  17 Hornet:

H4198
IMR 4227
296
H110
LilGun
H335
H322


This CFE can finally stop the bad mouthing by gun writers on how bad the 17 REM fouls up barrels. what really bothers me is when these sports writers say..  "I Don't Really Own a 17 Rem but!!!!!!" Watch for statements like that on some of the gun pros in the past... They never owned a 17 Rem but pass judgement on it...

I really like the IMR 8208 XBR powder... Wow that shoots so well in the 17 Fireball,  17 Rem,  223, and the  22250... It's also a powder that can be used for all kinds of calibers... I will be checking this Hodgdon CFE powder out...

[Papa1]

Scott,  There is tons of articles about the 19 Badger.  What in particular am I supposed to be looking for?  Dick