Ammo Energy

[foxtrot]

For the guys that are into reloading and are familiar with different calibers what would you say is the maximum amount of energy you would want out of a load before pelt damage in fox is going to happen?The 22 Hornet is around 728 ft. lbs.The 17 fireball is about 849 ft lbs.These two seem to do ok without much damage.The 221 fireball is a little higher at about 868 and seems pretty good but probably getting close to the upper limits.Do you think the 22 caliber bullets are more effective at releasing the energy within rather than blowing through?What about a 19 calhoon or Tac 20?I know there are a lot of variables once one starts reloading.

[TFC2223]

I am not a big fan of downloading calibers.  Even with attempting this with the 221 Fireball I was never happy with my results on fox.  My Tac 20 is rarely used for fox.  Very good on coyote and bobcats.  When it comes to fox I tear them up beyond what I care for when it conccerning pelt damage.  I have over 50 kills on fox with the Tac 20 and rarely do I get one thats acceptable to me.  22 magnum, 17 Fireball, 17 Ackley Hornet, 22 Hornet, 17 Hornet etc. are much better on fox and thats without downloading etc.   Bullets, shot placement, distance shot at and so on are still variables that need to be considered as well.  Generally speaking though the above calibers are fine for fox.  Trust me forget the attack 20 leave that one for yotes and bobcats.

[foxfx]

I've done some extensive reloading and field testing with different ideas.  I have found that 650-700 ftlbs is the energy threshold before things start splashing and blowing up .  I've used a 223rem that I downloaded to the hornet velocity for several years with excellent results in accuracy and terminal performance.   

Many people talk about the 17 fireball as being super "fur friendly".  My bro-in-law bought one and about 90% of the time when he shot a critter, it was a extreme horror show with huge splash wounds and blow outs.  I suggested getting rid of the plastic tipped bullets and moving towards a 25gr hollow point.  I did some hand loading for him and used hodgons "starting" load data.  This load chronoed at 3200fps which is about 600fps slower than factory ammo.  By moving to a hollow point and reducing the load a bit, his problems pretty much went away.  The last several fox he shot had only a little pin hole entry.  I'm a believer in getting the energy levels below 700 ftlbs.

I will agree with TFC2223 in that shot placement and bullet choice is key.  With some of my bad shots, I've created some ugly gashes. 

[foxtrot]

Good feed back guys,I agree with the 700 ft lbs being the max although I haven't had to much experience with the high end.I can say for the low end you should have at least 300 to be effective.I have hunted with some guys using larger calibers and I just don't like the noise or the damage they do.

[TFC2223]

My fox rifle is a 17 Mach IV using 20 grain Hornady Vmax bullets.  Its a wildcat version of the 17 Fireball.  I don't download it all.  In fact I run it hot and fast.  I put alot of fur down this season and only one was what I consider bad pelt damage.  This was due to shooter error.  Bad angle and I tore one.  Many variables exist and bullet choice and or make up can also be a big factor.  My 17 has always been great on fur with the exception of one previous season that was horrible.  Fur damage, runners some of which were lost, splash etc.  My recipe was identical but I was into a different lot of the same bullet.  Its the only thing that changed so I believe that for whatever reason that run of bullets was more frangible.  i quit using that lot of bullets and now I am definitely back track.  Different factors contribute to fur friendly calibers.  Good luck on the energy results but, its not the sole reason for fur damage. 

[foxtrot]

Yea the 17 fireball and the Mach IV are just about hitting the sweet spot,any more than that and your going to have holes.I know probably nobody has one but the 19 calhoon is right there as well.

[TFC2223]

I almost did the 19 Calhoon over my Tac 20 but, back then and maybe even still there wasn't much being offered for bullet selection.  Never shot one but, it had my interest for a while anyways.