I have yet to reload the 17 Hornet for my Encore barrel... Most of my shots are at the 100 yard mark using the Hornady 20 grain factory VMAX... I do rip the red fox if I hit them on the lower part or the torso.. Kills them dead that's for sure. however at 100 yards using factory if red are shot in head, mouth, chest, sure above shoulder i'm still getting what someone gets for trapping a red fox..