PPHA Forums
Predator Hunting => Predator Hunting => Topic started by: scott on March 01, 2016, 11:00:55 AM
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I am not a big fan of coyote hunting with hounds in PA.. my biggest problem is how they chase coyotes across other peoples properties then shoot them where they have permission or on state lands. in my opinion you should not allow your dogs to run on private property you don't have permission.
When I was young we hunted rabbits all the time with beagles. we were hunting state game lands with a group of 4 or 5 people and the dog was running a rabbit, we were all lined up and the beagle was working the rabbit back to the group when another hunter not in our group shot the rabbit before it got to us. we went over and my uncle went up one side of the hunter and down the other. the guy offered up the rabbit but that seemed to piss my uncle off even more. when we got back to the car my uncle explain that what the hunter did was not illegal but just not moral, to never shoot game that another mans dog was chasing.
Two years ago we were on the same game lands in about the same spot and I could hear a dog chasing and coming toward us, I was standing right next to Forrest when a coyote came bounding into us, Forrest went to pick up his gun and I told him no that the dog in the distance was chasing it, the coyote ran down past us, the hound shortly followed. the coyote circled back and we could have shot it again but just watched it run away. we walked out to the road and a guy was in a truck, he said my dog is chasing a coyote or bobcat did you see it, I told him it was coyote and we saw it, he said if you see it again to shoot it. we never did. I explain to Forrest in the truck that we don't shoot animals over other peoples dogs. that is what I was taught.
So, back to why I am writing this, on Sunday morning I was out back yard working and I can hear dogs chasing a coyote on a mountain one over from me, I told Forrest that it was going to run the mountain, circle down and run the ridge behind our house, we worked in the yard and listened to the dogs in the distance, they circled the coyote and the started to get louder, forrest said they are going to run the ridge like you said. The hound guys have been told to stay off the property they were about to let their dogs run, I could have drove up the hill walked onto the property and killed that coyote on land I am only allowed to hunt. My question is would it be wrong to do so. Your thoughts?
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You said it best yourself, do not shoot an animal off someone else's dogs. You would have been in the wrong per your own code of ethics.
In reguards to dog men, everyone is free to have they're own thoughts and opinions. You don't like dogs running coyotes all over the place because you can not teach a dog property lines. I don't like tomatoes! We all have those things in life we do not like but who am I to say that houndsmen do not deserve the same right to hunt the way they hunt as I do, the way I hunt.
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hunting is a privilege not a right.. and it is not right to anyone or dog trespass on another mans property, I was taught that also..
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If it's not illegal I say have at it. We as hunters shouldn't fight amongst each other. There are enough people trying to take hunting away from us we shouldn't try to do it too.
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your right Scott, hunting is a privilege and people should respect boundaries and property lines! They don't always do that though. So what can you do? Do you shoot the dogs that cross the property line? You get the info you can and pass it on, other than that you just go on not liking it.
Way to much fighting among hunters today like Bigcat has stated.
There isn't enough
S.
P.
O.
R.
T.
Anymore! It's all about me, me, me!
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the reason I brought this up was we always joke about shooting the coyotes when they come on our properties. I first would like to see if they had the guts to say anything. also, I read on another forum where a dog hunter was complaining that people are were doing this during the MQ hunt.
true story. I have a farm that only I can hunt, nobody else. The PO had a horse injured because the coyote and dogs spooked it and it ran on ice slipped and fell. She told the hunters not to come back on the property, ever. Next week she is standing in the kitchen and sees a coyote run across the lower pasture she goes out on the porch and hears the dog barking and knows what is coming next. goes back in the house and grabs the 30-30, dogs enter the field and she starts shooting. lucky it was about 250 yards and she was using open sights. the father of the two hunters comes to the farm the next day and is pissed that she was shooting at his sons dogs. he actually said to her I don't see the problem, those dogs aren't bothering the deer and we are just hunting coyotes. they were told to never come on the property again. 2 weeks later she had 2 cows poisoned in her upper field next to the road.
from what I know in my area the hound guys break a lot of laws and when you break laws while hunting it is called poaching. why is it that people find it acceptable for some people to break laws and not others. what about the guy who baits bear, or the jack lighter shooting bucks at night should we stand up for those guys also because they are hunters???
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Those people aren't hunters, they're criminals. I own a small piece of property I enjoy hunting on. I pay the taxes, I maintain the up keep, it's my blood, sweat and tears that manages the property for wildlife. As a land owner, I go bullistic on people who think this posted signs mean absolutely nothing, when I catch them. If it weren't for my small deer management on my property, there wouldn't be a deer left in my area. If someone asks for permission, I lay the ground rules and usually allow it. I like knowing who's on my property, why they are there and for what reason. I don't want it over hunted where every animal is killed off and there are none for me to enjoy.
So, as a land owner, you bet your sweet a$$ I would have drove up and at least confronted the hunters and yes probably shot the coyote out from under them. If for no other reason, simply to teach them a lesson not to come back.
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I had a coon line set on state game lands one day I went to check all my traps were gone at the one set there was a note thanks for the traps and the four coons you caught two of my dogs I have issues with running hounds but if I was into running hounds I would see this different
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you can't be 100% the hound guys poisoned those cows. So the only one in the wrong by law is the lady shooting at the dogs. If they start on property the are allowed on and only the dogs enter posted property it is not breaking the law. Now for the lady shooting at the dogs she should be fined. I feel the next story will be the hunters do enter the property. I'll say this not all hound guys follow the laws but not all callers follow the laws, not all land owners follow the law, shooting at dogs chasing, and not all deer hunters follow the laws. But to complain about a hunter who is following the laws weather you agree with what they do or not is wrong in my book. We are all on the same team come on.
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I have run across many traps while running the beagle, never had her caught in one yet. I have only ever bothered 2 sets in my entire time hunting, the first is a 220 that was set on dry land in a bucket set and the second was a 1.75, it had a 1/2 a squirrel suspended over it with a turtle hook through the squirrel. both were on private land and neither trap was tagged.
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so you can let your dogs run game on other peoples property?
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We live in open range country and most dogs running free will never make it home if a cowboy is out tending the herd or riding fence. Most all of the ranch land is not posted and you not need ask permission to hunt. I have found that land that is posted was recently bought by some liberal from back east or the west coast. There attitude seems to be "it's mine and stay the hell off."
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I'm with you Scott. I'm not a fan of houndsmen. I've seen a lot of unethical behavior from them. Especially when it comes to ignoring private property boundaries. I don't mind people hunting coyotes with dogs. I do mind the way the break laws doing it. It gives us all a bad name and closes properties to further hunting....
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so you can let your dogs run game on other peoples property?
Don't get me wrong they could be breaking the law. But if they start on property they have permission such as SF, SGL, or property they have permission yes the dogs can run across posted property but the hunter can not last I checked. I don't run dogs but I was curious when one of these ridiculous topics came up a few years ago. Now if they start them on property they are not allowed on I think that's illegal. My thing is they are hunters just like you and me just because they don't do it the same way doesn't make it wrong. As I said before I know callers that have "unethical behavior" does that make all callers bad? We are all hunters weather you like the way someone else does it or not we should all stick together.
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I am pretty sure that you have to have control of your dog at all times. I have a beagle and use her for rabbit hunting. We only chase on public land and private land i have permission to hunt. if she were going to cross a line into someone elses property i would pull her off the rabbit. i would never put her in that situation. because it would be my fault if something happened to her.
I will stand up for any hunter that is doing it legal. I would never use a semi to hunt but i would be the first to vote yes for them. The hound hunters in my area do not follow trespass laws, use electronics to track the dogs to get around and kill the coyote, use atvs and trucks. i really don't think it is fair to the coyote.
i know of at least 5 dogs that were killed on the highway because they were chasing coyotes, not sure if i could live with myself it were my dogs.
i have a beagle to hunt rabbits, a feist to hunt squirrels, and a Chesapeake to retrieve waterfowl. i love dogs and hunting with dogs, i just don't think that PA is set up to run coyotes. jmo.. and only mo...
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The way they run they have to have gps locators on them in case they get too far. In your first post you said you knew where they would end up. I'm sure the owners that do it all the time also have a good idea. But I'm sure they have to track them down sometimes. I know some coon hunters that have gps on there dogs. But yeah if they do it wrong then they should be fined but nothing I have heard you say tells me they do it wrong. All I'm hearing is you don't like people who hunt coyotes with dogs coyotes you only have permission to hunt.
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i am telling you, i have hunted with them. the GPS collars is for tracking the coyote. guy goes in with the dogs and jumps a coyote, radios to someone in a truck the which way they are going. guys in trucks move onto properties that they have permission to hunt and wait for the coyote. if it changes directions again the radio sounds on which way it is going. trucks start up and move to another property..
gps, radio, truck. illegal, illegal, illegal....
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Scott, same ole complaint I've had in the 60's, 70's & 80's with trespassing hound dogs, Fox hounds and Coon hounds.
The 90's and nowadays, same problem with letting Coyote hounds run on posted property.
Over the decades, I've confronted many hound guys and talked with property owners.
Nothing has changed.
In face, I never changed anything around here, I just out lived the ole Fox & Coon hound guys. Now we have a new breed, Coyote hound guys. I can not see anything changing. Just us (this post) bitch'n about it hasn't changed either...lol
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lol. we are still allowed to bitch about it........ for the record I have never called the GC or State Police, this is just my complaint..
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I have.
Never worked.
Keep bitch'n...lol
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Yeah. But most do it right. All I'm saying hound guys are hunters just the same as us. I was in a bar one night and was talking to a kid about calling. He goes on to tell me how awesome his night vision on his ar is. It doesn't make me or anyone else who calls bad people just him. Nothing against you Scott or anyone else who doesn't like hound guys it's just the way I see it and everyone is in titled to there opinion.
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I told one of them a few years ago that our club had gotten No,4 buck legalized. He said "really' our crew been using it for over 20 years."
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The Holundsmen meet with the PGC Regional directors every qtr in Harrisburg. They have clout!
In the bible sin is sin! If a person poaches that just as bad when people who break trespass laws are no better. You never see where a PGC undercover agent bust the houndsmen that break laws! Good for me my farms are to small for for this kind of hunting.
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:) They have clout! :) You have that right UB ;) They almost got that bounty on coyotes passed :P Costs money to feed ,house,vet bills and drive trucks around ::) and don't forget the electronics for them dogs >:( What better way to get a little support from your hunting partners, than have the PGC fund it ;D ;D fortunately it hit a wave of opposition they didn't see coming and was killed ;D...........I'm with you Scott and I have owned all types of sporting dogs in my life................. 8)
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You can start your hound anywhere you have the right to be. Your dog may chase these coyotes across property lines. The hunter must ask the land owner to go on the property to get his dog or coyote. If the landowner says no then the hunter must call the game commission and an officer will escort him in to get the dog or coyote or both. I'll be honest with everyone complaining about guys running dogs, coon hunters do the same exact thing and no one complains about it because it's at night. a lot of coon hunters will dump their dogs where they don't have permission because they can hide in the dark. Also, if it wasn't for these guys using dogs the deer, turkey, and small game population would be in serious trouble. All of these new professional coyote hunters are educating dogs and callers will never be able to help control their populations.
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I am not sure that is entirely correct. I know a GC officer cant go on private land to look for a wounded deer. Also I believe the GC has no authority over trespass laws. They fall under police juristriction. And I can most certainly keep the predator population down without dog hunters.
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So why don't they set a dog hunting season. Just kinda like a trapping season. They have ther dog running season and everyone gets to hunt coyotes all year. Just a idea. The coon hunters have a season so should they
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Nobody is complaining about guys running dogs. What I am complaining about are guys knowingly breaking laws and everyone turning a blind eye because it is a coyote. Do it the right way and nobody will say anything. Makes me wonder what questions are being asked at the MQ lie detector test.
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I can tell you they don't all break laws so you should probably talk people specific instead of lumping all of them into one category. Every time this comes up it is against everyone who runs coyotes with hounds. I can tell you when I did it we talk to property owners and when we ask they are more than willing to let us in. We have had times were someone said no and the dogs had a coyote bayed on their property. The game warden escorted one of us in to get the dog out. You can't just leave dogs in the woods cornering an animal.
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We have 3 groups that run here and 1 that runs up by cabin. They all use GPS and radios and trucks. I can tell u stories from 2 of the groups that wouldn't believe but I won't put them on the internet. I will say this u are correct if there are coyote hound guys out there doing it the right way good for you and my apologies.
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What district are you in Scott?
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