PPHA Forums
Predator Hunting => Predator Hunting => Topic started by: Tom Stohler on February 19, 2016, 02:33:58 PM
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If you were to take a guess at how many coyotes are in Pennsylvania what would you guess
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? In 1986 I called in none 2015-2016 I called in more coyotes than fox. Been real bad red fox hunting in my area this year. Best year for me ever calling in coyotes.
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I think reds are really taking a beating, cable restraints witch a six year old could catch fox with, everyone's calling at nite and the coyotes seams like everything is hitting the Reds, even the eagles take there share of the Reds pups
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IMO it's coyotes pushing them out.
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+1
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Tried to call a red today since tomorrow is the last day. Didn't see anything not even crows which I almost always fire up on a call stand. I got 1 for my first year I guess that's not too bad. I only started in December. Now time to take my first yote...I can hear then laughing at me in the distance lol
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Red fox numbers are down and I would agree coyotes are the reason.
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These are ole statistics, but will give you an idea...
http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt?open=514&objID=598430&mode=2
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:( Reminder
« on: January 15, 2016, 08:59:35 AM »
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Remember if you are still hunting/trapping fox.. ??? ??? ??? ???...If you harvest a female, you are likely harvesting 4-8 fox of next year as most females are now bred :o :o :o :o :o :o
"Goose" post from earlier, no replies! :( :( Even if you shoot the Male you are seriously jeopardizing the females ability to live and raise the pups with no help for her. Pups are gone also... :( :(........... 8) As for sticking to the question "How Many?" well to many in my book, they also do a fine job of knocking off fawns and turkeys and anything else they can sink their teeth in........
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I see a ton of red in nepa. My problem is seeing coyotes and grey fox. It all depends where you are.....I don't trap but I know people that do and they definitely trapped there share of reds this year. Now I think the yotes moved into their locations and decided to set up shop and mate. What I do know is that years ago I would see coyotes at night. Now a days I don't see any....I hear them but don't see them. Fox hunting is over for me till next season. Time to focus on these yotes. I think all day about ways to outsmart them suckers. ..good luck to anyone going out today
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I stopped targeting fox at the first of the year. My buddy has property that I'm allowed to hunt. There are still red fox there that I passed on. The little guys have it tough now days. I'm hopeful that there will be more next year since I left them be. As to the number of coyotes, that's hard to say. There are areas with high numbers and areas with low numbers. I was reading Pennsylvania outdoor news the other day and the article on coyote bounties has me concerned. I've read studies that suggest that litter sizes will go up the more coyotes you kill off ..... :o :o :o That sounds like a recipe for disaster! Anyone have thoughts on this?
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I don't understand how a k9 can manipulate there breedin patterns. Having a bigger litter the next time?? How do they control that? I'm not disagreeing that it can't happen , just don't understand how that's possible. If that was the case where I am,, I would be seeing them more, but I'm not. Just signs of them
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Coyotes make their living not being seen. It is true they can increase and decrease litter production but it is much more detailed than that. Carrying capacity, prey and food availability and more also play a role. If coyotes are just moving into the area it is less likely to happen than if they were established.
I talk to people a lot that think there are no coyotes in the state.
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L4F. I agree that it's more detailed than that. My thinking was, that in the short term, if you get a pile of guys hunting coyotes just add some $ to their pockets, 1 there "could" be a significant drop in the population that would in turn equal more prey for the ones left (less competition) causing a spike in the population, and 2 the guys just doing it for money without much knowledge of coyotes and coyote behavior could educate them faster than what they already are. I'm not sure what long term affects it could have. :-\
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I agree with you all. Coyotes just don't stay in an area. Once the food is gone they move. They could impact let say a block of farms deer season and a trapper fox season. No one gets any deer and no one catches red fox. Next season it could be great seasons for deer hunters and trappers. Know where the impact occurs is fawn mortality in May and June? :(
They could hurt the deer population. Also turkey too.Think of the number if people that call in coyotes in Gobbler season? :( places I did well on coyote calling this year the farmers did bad hunting deer. Those coyotes are now gone. When they were there I called and trapped 0 red fox.
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I don't understand how a k9 can manipulate there breedin patterns. Having a bigger litter the next time?? How do they control that? I'm not disagreeing that it can't happen , just don't understand how that's possible. If that was the case where I am,, I would be seeing them more, but I'm not. Just signs of them
Increase in small game and prey species induces an increase in litter size...this is why the eradication attempts in the West ultimately failed..it was only a short term solution..By removing vast numbers of coyotes, the food source went up, which in turn allowed the remaining coyotes the ability to sustain larger litters..at least thats how I understood it..
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Its definitely interesting.
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I don't understand how a k9 can manipulate there breedin patterns. Having a bigger litter the next time?? How do they control that? I'm not disagreeing that it can't happen , just don't understand how that's possible. If that was the case where I am,, I would be seeing them more, but I'm not. Just signs of them
Increase in small game and prey species induces an increase in litter size...this is why the eradication attempts in the West ultimately failed..it was only a short term solution..By removing vast numbers of coyotes, the food source went up, which in turn allowed the remaining coyotes the ability to sustain larger litters..at least thats how I understood it..
What causes this is called: God! of course this is IMO...
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That's the only logical explanation I can come up with uncle buck.
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I think reds are really taking a beating, cable restraints witch a six year old could catch fox with, everyone's calling at nite and the coyotes seams like everything is hitting the Reds, even the eagles take there share of the Reds pups
I've hunted and trapped the same area all my life.
IMO, the coyotes and the lack of farm land to support the rodent population are the cause for our red decline. We have less of every game species now
As far as the number of guys trapping and hunting at night, there were a LOT more guys doing it in the 80s and early 90s than there are now. Seldom could you go out without hearing a hound or a call in the distance. Seldom could you find a farm that didn't already have someone trapping. At least in my area
If you didn't hunt fox back then, you missed a great time that we will never see again
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Uncle buck I thinks that's the problem I'm running into now. Spots that had the signs of yotes.....but I'm guessing they moved. I've been following these pricks for miles. When I go out to call no howling, nothing,,no dogs in site. Or I have to get on THEIR schedule. Time to put a camera up and see what times they roam...lots of human traffic in their spots. Quads, people shooting targets, etc. I'm just worried my camera will get stolen that's why I haven't done it sooner.
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Thoughts?
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In my experience, they will move on you a lot and uncommon to popular belief by some, every property is loaded with coyotes. Many time over the years I've been contacted by guys that want me to catch the coyotes on there property to find they weren't there. Property owner wouldn't believe it, cuz he hears them all the time.
If you know the area well enough, you can kinda figure out there pattern. If they aren't on property A now, good chance they will be on property B
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It a bunch of old mining property that's and lots of it. They could be anywhere that's the tuff part. Actually locating where they are that present day. Especially tuff when it's prime atv riding area as well, etc. Etc. That's why they call it hunting. I would be happy to just see one at this point!!! Just don't get it play the wind everytime, use food lure, gland lure, full camo, I'm quite as **** in the woods. These dogs around here r really smart
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Try just going in as scent free as possible and calling. Leave the lures home and throw some howls at them and see if they start responding that way. Maybe they are smelling the lures and getting turned off of a silent approach. Just a thought.
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Coyotes are not hard to call in.. They have to be there. However if you hunt with more than two people your now really cutting your odds down.. Your dealing with an animal that is just like us.. A mammal that can reason... So you got to do to them what people do to you... So many hunters hunt with the wind at their back.. Wrong... it's over already coyotes are going to test the wind when they hear the sound.. Now I can tell you this they will get in line with the loudest part of the sound.. So don't be afraid to aim that speaker into the wind.. Now the coyotes are unpredictable.. They will come in to the sound from any direction.. When i'm calling many flank me from the side.. I think this is for them to get a jump on the animal.. Kind of like sneaking up on a rabbit that is facing and crying up wind. What new callers need is for a good predator caller to give them a bit of classroom training. Just like E. Wilson did last year... There are so many riflemen that don't even know the proper way to shoot when a predator enters the kill zone...Someone got to show a new predator caller just what to do when they see a coyote... So many walk in to deep. Again the call is a tool.. You use tools to make your work easier... Call them to you don't go after them.. IMPORTABT coyotes do not like to use any of it energy... See Smart.. They will rather come to your call from a least resistance path.. County roads.. You should see how many I couldn't shoot because I called them right down the road..They go in horse corrals with the horse.. get in line with the farmers house.. So since coyotes use the house to come to my calls.. Me UB the coyote will use the farmers house or building to make the coyote come in the other way...Ask your farmers if you can hunt in the Safety Zones... everyone of mine allows it because they trust... Me... Think about this... with the wind in your face get up to the barn door and call.. Many barns have a sharp incline going up to the door... So the wind is blowing in your face and into the barn.. Now if your hiding behind you red light. wind in your face etc. How can they smell and see you.. Also many guys hit the light to shoot when it off. I must now have about 20 E. Wilson batteries... My shooting light is on all the time and pointed in the direction that I think the coyotes are coming from to me...Head light on too.. Now when I hunt with more than two that's when I can't control what the other additional shooter is doing while i'm calling. My son is now broken in well to my hunting scenario.. When I take another person with him.. When I hear the shot.. .It's always my son.. The greenie just doesn't get it and he has wrecked up some easy shots at coyotes when I call...I know you all know the person who kills coyotes one after another.. Did you ever notice that person only hunts by himself?
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UB I hunt by myself all the time. Never call with the wind at my back. That's hunting 101 of anything you are hunting. Maybe the use of the lures is what is throwing them off. Also I'm convinced the only way to get them late at night which I haven't tried yet. The other night it was 8pm dark. Thought I would be good nope. Still quads riding around. These coyotes are definitely they there they howl every night when the sun goes down. Then you don't hear another peep out of them. What gives here??? I know it's definitely not my camo. Nor is that I can't seal the deal on a predator. I've called red fox no problems. I know the yotes are definitely in the area I am. Just can't call them in??? I need someone that's actually killed yotes and not trapped them. But unfortunately none of my friends are yote slayers. Any takers?
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I don't use any cover scent any more... I hunt many a farm coyote and I do well after everything calms down.. 11:00 PM. That's when they will come out into the middle of the fields.. Many hunters on here only hunt them in the deep woods...They swear by that.. woods hunting only... Me i'm in SCPA so we have more farms.. However We do have mtns too.... Do you keep your light on at all times.. Your red head light and .. Me I also keep my shooting light on when using a rifle.. Now shotgun I don't keep that on all time and hardly use it.. I use my head light for shotgunning....If your turning your head light off at anytime .. They see you ... Stay behind both shooting and the head light... We use tripods and stand and shoot.. Sometimes I will attach a light to the scope and one on the tripod too..
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I think that's gonna be the time zone for them to come out midnight to sunrise. Sunset just isn't happening for me. They chased all the reds out to. I will try the stand and shoot approach and see if that works me. I also don't Leave my headlamp on all the time. I will try this next time. I found signs of turkey today though!! Spring gobler coming up!
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They are seeing you... I bet that one of your problems... You keep your red light on when you depart the vehicle and keep it on until you get back to the vehicle.. Not only to make you stealth but for safety reasons too... Remember the red light in front of you or on your head make the predator see a black circle... Soon as you turn it off.. It's over.. I had a problem with my family doctor.. The guy wouldn't listen to what I would say.. He would turn the light off as soon as I'd stop calling and all of a sudden the coyotes will bust us..
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Thanks! I will definitely keep the light on next hunt. Possibly tonight
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I agree with UB keeping light on at all times works think of it this way somebody shines light at you you cannot see them its the same for the coyote.
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Maybe that's just the adjustment I need to make me start bringing them in.