PPHA Forums
Predator Hunting => Guns and Ammo => Topic started by: Critterslayer51 on June 11, 2009, 12:09:01 PM
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So a friend and I have been passing around ideas on how to shoot fox with my .223 without ripping the pelt in half by either shock of the hit, or the exit wound all in itself. Would it be better to buy a larger grain bullet, say 55gr-68gr to slow down the velocity (3200fps range), or go the smallest bullet we can get (40gr, 3800fps) with a ballistic tip and hope it goes in and doesn't come out? I shoot a model 25 savage, and it has a 1-9 twist, so shooting the heavier rounds won't be an issue. Would the larger gr bullets cause more damage just due to the weight, no matter how fast they're moving? Also, what is everyones opinion on bullet style, is it best to just stay with ballistics or hollow points? I've heard some people actually stating that shooting a solid like a FMJ would only create a small entry and exit hole, but now how far is it going to run? I've shot 45 gr hollow points from the winchester white box stuff at hogs and had them go in and not come out at even close range, and used a 55 gr pointed soft point at the same distances on hogs and pretty much gutted them. Now, understandably i'm sure the 55gr is due to the mushroom i'm sure the soft point created. If its a loose, loose situation, then i'm either just going to buy a .17 rem or a .204 and leave the .223 for shooting coyotes. I'm already going to buy a .17 HMR, just shopping around and i'm pretty sure that will do the job on foxes at well at distances belown 200yrds. Anyone got any ideas?
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i was in the same situation last year and ending up buying the .17 fireball, i haven't shot anything with it yet so i can't say first hand. When i was doing the research for a coyote/fox gun and pelt damage the .17 remington fireball was the one that kept coming up.
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Scott is right the 17 center fires are your best bet.
However recently I have watch a Gerald Stewart DVD. He commented how using Winchester 55 Grain Silver Tips does not blow up bobcat. It showed him using them on the DVD to and they, the bobcats were not blow up to bits. Now the 55 Grain does come in three grains for the .224. The 40 (hard to find) the 50 grainer and of course the 55 grainer. Gerald was using the Win Silver Tips 55 grainers and the 22250. I would think that if a bobcat pelt is not blown apart that maybe even a fox pelt might survive.
I purchased the all three grains and will try the 55 grainers at least on coyotes or maybe even red fox if I load some 50's for the 222 Rem. The bullets are made by Winchester and Combined Technologies...These you have to reload...Now I think I did see them in both factory rounds in the 22250 and I think the 223. However they are about $28.00 a box.
I do not know if this is true or not. However I am taking what I saw on this particular JS DVD and what Gerald Stewarts comments were on it.
However like Scott above: I think that all predator caller should own at least one 17 center fire. Awesome calibers for sure!!!Awesome to use on chucks too...I enjoy chuck hunting more when I use my 17 CF's.
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I just received communications from Gerald Stewart on this... He confirmed that it was the Silver Tip 55 grain used with the 223 caliber and not the 22250 that was outstanding as a fur gun.
One can watch him shooting bobcat on the PV4 using a 223 and not the 22250 and the Winchester Silver Tip 55 grainers.
He thinks the 22250 would still be to much gun for fox utilizing the Win/CombinedTech Silvertip 55 grain bullets.
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As you all get to know me a little more you will find out Im a .17 Rem fanatic...I night hunt mostley and the .17 Rem is my goto rifle!!!I like it because it is very easy on fur and kills with authority!!!I load 25 grain bergers at a little over 4,000 fps and when I skin them out it looks like jelly on the inside!!!I was talking to Byron South the other night about the same question that you are speaking of about the .223 and he assured me if I used heavier bullets in the .223 that fur damage would be minimal...I was looking to get one of Byrons signature rifles, the R-15 and that was one of my concerns also because Im all about the fur...Here is a couple pics from this year where I shot these animals with the .17 Rem and you can see hardly any fur damage.....Chad
(http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww143/MCWALK/100_1752.jpg)
(http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww143/MCWALK/100_1755.jpg)
(http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww143/MCWALK/100_1747.jpg)
(http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww143/MCWALK/100_1761.jpg)
And then there is always the shotgun... ;D
(http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww143/MCWALK/100_1738-1.jpg)
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Sweet!!!
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Nice job MC, don't you love it when a plan comes together.
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Hope my 204 ruger does that.
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hey Chad,
After meeting your wife I know for a fact she is a great gal....but man...she even lets you drag in your fox for pics on the kitchen linoleum floor????!!!! WOW!!! ;D
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I did try that before Woody until she found out ;D ;D ;D...That pic is on my back porch thats screened in...Earl your .204 will kill like that but Im afraid it is not real fur friendly...Ive got 2 .204's and love them...Thanks for the comments guys...How in the heck do you send private messages on here?....Chad
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I'm getting my Va license and having a certain call maker take me out for some fur ;D
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You are welcome to come anytime you like!!!I sincerly mean that...I have got tons of permission to hunt on farms around here spanning 5 or 6 counties....Spots to go to is not a problem...
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Those are some really nice pics there MCWALK! Is that a nitelite set up for your head lamp?
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That is a bright eyes coon light 21 volt...I use that to scan with and then when I see eyes I turn the lightforce on...I use a red pop cover on the coon light also but when I went to get the fox I had taken it off and put it in my pocket so I could see better....
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MC~ i believe you cannot recieve or send PM's till you make a certain amount of posts.
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yep I think you need to make 20 posts before you can send pms. that way spam doesn't get passed around quick.
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What's the secret to cutting down fur damage? Reduce bullet weight or bullet speed?
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Earl I would say increase bullet weight and reduce speed.......With the .17 Rem,I load those Berger match bullets but they are moving pretty fast...You have also got to have penatration...I am not a big fan of ballistic tips because I have used them and have had splashes before....The last ballistic tip I shot was at a coyote that I called in late one evening....I shot him dead in the shoulder with a ballistic tip 55 grain out of a .243 and he spun 2 or 3 times and took off running...I never did find that coyote,just hair and some blood...I am going to try some different stuff for the .204 this year with loads...I have been loading 35 grain Bergers pretty hot and have shot fox with those and it look like you had thrown a house cat threw one ;D...I was thinking of loading 40 grain Bergers for the .204 at a much lower velocity and see what happens......Chad
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Guys I just want to add that Im no expert in this...Im just telling you what Ive tried in the field over the years...
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Guys I just want to add that Im no expert in this...Im just telling you what Ive tried in the field over the years...
that is what an expert is in my opinion and is greatly appreciated.
when i was looking for a fox/coyote gun i took the advise of a person who has been there and done that and ended up with the .17 fireball on his suggestion.
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Thanks Scott!!!The .17 Fireball is wonderful also!!!As with the .17 Rem you still have to pick your shots...All the coyotes that I have shot with my .17 have been in the neck because like I stated earlier that I night hunt 90% of the time...When the light hits them in the eyes I aim just below the eyes and squeeze the trigger...That way there is no guessing about which way the body is to take the shot...You aim just below the eyes and you are always going to hit neck....That is if you dont miss,and Ive done plenty of that also.... ;D ;D ;D
I shot this coyote in the neck at about 150 yards this past March with the .17 and he didnt even twitch....I howled him in and I guess he thought he had him a girlfriend!!!! ;D ;D ;D
(http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww143/MCWALK/100_1775.jpg)
This one was called in thick cover to about 40 yards and I let him have it with a Browning BPS load of 3 inch BB's...Good grief he was a big ole red one!!!Man it was cold that evening!!!Look at my red nose... ;D ;D ;D
(http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww143/MCWALK/100_1708.jpg)